Things you see at 4:00 am

Like many of my friends I work nights and thus I have the misfortune of being awake for a lot more hours than most people and get time to think and write accodingly. These are just reflections on the curent state of everything I have an opinion about.

Friday, June 06, 2008

The Glock Hype

Ok I am slowly introducing a coworker to the world of hand gun ownership and he is buying into the hype of the Glock. I personally don't care for them but I don't want to let my bias influence his decision too much. I gave him the advice of hold a bunch of different guns and decide which one feels the most friendly in his hand what points naturally and fits comfortably. I don't know whether or not he has done this but he has told me that he has it narrowed down to Glock and the Springfield XD. The hasn't selected a caliber yet. He asked my if the Springfield was able to fire with a barrel full of sand or under water like the Glock. Now I have heard that the Glock is capable of doing this, but I am not sure if this is nothing more than Hollywood hype and rumor. If anyone out there knows if it is A. true and B. Whether or Not the XD's are capable of this please let me know. He is also asking for a magic one shot one kill caliber bullet combo, but we all know it is shot placement more than anything else in that department.

10 Comments:

Blogger davewyman99 said...

I've seen the XD "torture tests" that put the XD through similar paces. I'd be comfortable with either the Glock or the XD and it should probably hinge on which one fits his grip and points more naturally. For me, that was the XD but for my wife it was the Glock. I doubt that I'll ever find myself in a situation where I'll have a barrel full of sand or need to shoot underwater. If I do, I think I'm already screwed.

10:17 AM  
Blogger Sevesteen said...

One similar test:

http://springfield-armory.intermediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.php

And firing with a bullet lodged in the barrel:

http://www.hs-arms.com/europe/files/tests/frame_engl.htm

(HS 2000 is the original name for the XD, before the US got rights, still sold in Europe)

And to clarify, the tests bury the gun in a barrel of sand, not packing sand in the barrel of the gun. There is a Glock designed to fire underwater, and I seem to remember Mythbusters firing various guns. If I recall correctly, the barrel must be completely full of water, else it acts like a bore obstruction.

The torture tests I've seen show that both guns can fire immediately after being removed from water, while it is still draining.

Glock has more options and more accessories. XD has a trigger I like a lot better, and the subcompact is a better compromise of size for a concealed carry gun--Baby Glock is a little too small, the next size up is a little too big. . Glocks have a better finish than early XD's, the current ones are equal.

I would not recommend that he abuse his Glock, but if he feels that strongly that the Glock is superior, that is what he should carry--Confidence in your weapon is important.

One shot, one kill? .50bmg... :)

12:19 PM  
Blogger Zaakir Abdullah said...

Its obvious your friend is a total newb to firearms. Ask him at what point will he need his Glock to fire under water and with a barrel full of sand.

3:21 PM  
Anonymous Kristopher said...

You can fire a 1911 underwater as well ... you have to be sure that the barrel is completely full of water, and has no air trapped in it, and that the outside of the barrel is supported by water as well.

Range is less then 3 feet.

4:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From the JCP requirement :

"3.5.4. Non-catastrophic failure. The JCP shall not fail in a catastrophic manner when subjected to extremes in operational and environmental employment, or due to over stressing of the system during high operational use and extended round counts (T). “Catastrophic manner” is defined as the JCP failing in such a manner as to become a hazard to the operator or friendly force in the immediate vicinity. Failure inducing conditions may include but are not limited to: bore obstruction (including water and projectile) and environmental extremes."

5:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From the JCP requirement :

"3.5.4. Non-catastrophic failure. The JCP shall not fail in a catastrophic manner when subjected to extremes in operational and environmental employment, or due to over stressing of the system during high operational use and extended round counts (T). “Catastrophic manner” is defined as the JCP failing in such a manner as to become a hazard to the operator or friendly force in the immediate vicinity. Failure inducing conditions may include but are not limited to: bore obstruction (including water and projectile) and environmental extremes."

5:34 PM  
Blogger CL203 said...

One this guy is a total newb to the firearms world. Two I have already asked him when He was going to need to shoot underwater or with a barrel full of sand. Three thank god he didn't buy into the 1911 is the end all and be all of handguns hype.

1:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glock can also slice, dice, and make julienne french fries. Now how much would you pay?

Magic one shot one kill caliber bullet? Why, the Lone Ranger's silver bullet of course. :-)

In all seriousness, it sounds like you're doing the right thing and instructing/steering him in the right way. If he's a total n00b well, you have to expect some degree of this "attitude", just be patient and continue to teach him. Perhaps also encourage him to pick up some good books on the matter and/or good websites to read (i.e. let him start to find all the good advice/teachings for himself and from various sources).

Heck, maybe offer to go out with him on a Saturday afternoon to a local gun store... not necessarily a place with good prices to buy from, but a place with a wide selection and patient (and knowledgeable) sales clerks. Let him fondle as many guns as he can so he can get a better idea of what's out there and how they actually feel.... if they actually fit his hand right, etc..

I mean, I tried a Glock and within a few seconds of having it in my hand I could tell I hated it. Put a Kahr in my hand and it felt so natural. I currently have 2 XD's and find they suit my needs best. But going to a store and holding was a huge help, then going home and researching the ones that felt best helped more... learn more, narrow down the field more, back to the store to hold the remaining contenders again, back home to research... just an iterative process. Not exciting, rather methodical, but I got what I wanted and what was right and didn't have to buy (and then sell) a lot of guns to figure it out.

Just be patient and supportive. :-)

1:49 PM  
Blogger Bob said...

Glock vs. XD thoughts:

It at least used to be standard glock marketing hype to throw a loaded pistol frisbee style, since it handled this abuse well (though they occasionally had to revise the slide rails to take the stress). I don't think an XD would take this particularly well, with only one set, abit long, of steel rails.

You can't shoot lead out of a Glock (or H&K, or Kahr) polyagonal barrel, but you can out of an XD. On the other hand, the factory barrel will not likely last to the 100,000's of rounds you can get out of a poly barrel.

The XD design uses roll pins throughout, which is probably not horrid, though not nearly as smart from a durability perspective as the spring captured glock pins. With roll pins, depending on an individual gun's tolerances, the pins will either be nearly impossible to remove, or they'll walk under recoil (Kel-Tec and S&W).

The overall XD trigger mechanism has more, IMHO, in common with the S&W than the glock, and is a royal pain to take apart and reassemble compared to Glock. Completely stripping a Glock take very little skill or time, and can be done with a ballpoint pen in a jam.

There's infinitely more after market parts for glock, from trigger parts to barrels. However, if you're happy with a stock XD, then this is virtually irrelevant.

The XD subcompact, at least to me, has too high of a bore axis, and is harder to control than competing products (SW99, Glock 26, Kel-Tec P11).


I think the grip safety on the XD is mostly overrated. The number of freak ADs caused by a jacket drawstring, etc, is certainly less than those cause by shooter error that would have occurred with the grip safety depressed.

On the other hand, the takedown of the XD is substantially safer than glock, being that there's none of the retarded dropping the striker on a closed chamber errors.

I believe that the XD now has a very rust resistant slide, but most of the other steel parts are still more corrosion prone. So, I suppose the rust related glock torture tests might trip up an XD. Though, you'd probably have to leave it in a bucket of salt water for a month to have an issue.

5:18 PM  
Blogger ExistingThing said...

Out in the desert I opened the action on my XD-9, poured sand into it, blew it out, and put two mags through it.

That was the extent of my torture test.

11:01 PM  

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